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  #16  
Old 10-29-2008, 11:59 PM
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Part 2:

Bodies: The Mazda6 is a great-handling TC body, but as Sportwerks only offers it in two flavors, painted (black or blue) and clear, and as it's the only body made for the Recoil, it's hard to make yours stand out. The Sportwerks Tailwhip body, which is an unlicensed Nissan S15 design, comes painted red or clear and with Tailwhip body mounts, it will drop right on and give your chassis a tuner car look. Just make sure to remove those cheesy decals, as recent studies show they actually won't add 5hp. Craving pasta or just want to show your love for Italian girls? RCTech member "duneland" reports that the Carisma F360GTC body is a perfect fit as well. At $25, it's the cheapest and may very well be the only Ferrari you'll ever own. With a base color of red, it's decorated in racing livery with a white stripe and sponsor decals. These are the only two confirmed bodies for the Recoil, but since Carisma sells the GT14, which is the car the Horizon rebranded as the Recoil, with a multitude of different bodies, they should all fit. Make sure they're made for the GT14, not the M14, as the latter has adjustable wheelbase and/or width to fit each body to scale, like the micro RS4.

Upgrades: What few upgrades Horizon offers are already installed on the Recoil Pro. A steering rack ball bearing kit is offered, but it was pointed out that it might cause more slop than the bushing and will only attract dirt. Pass on that. There were once a handful of companies (CEFX, RatFactor) that produced real carbon fiber chassis' for the Recoil before the Pro version was released. All of the companies have stopped selling them, but recently, Exotek introduced their chassis. If you already have a Pro, this will offer little, if any benefit. It might be a competitive choice for racing, but for bashing, the Pros' graphite plates are cheaper to replace and more than stiff enough. The Exotek chassis comes with a trick carbon fiber battery hold-down, and they will be selling CF shock towers, as well.

Swaybars: There are two swaybars that are reported to fit with some massaging: the Losi Mini-LST and the Vendetta 'bars. Little information is know about fitment, since no pictures have been taken of the installation. The Mini-LST kit is cheaper and apparently fits the best. It is highly unlikely that Horizon will release their planned swaybar kit anymore.
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  #17  
Old 10-30-2008, 02:55 PM
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Yeah that is one webpage I haven't really checked out for Recoil info, Rcuniverse. Half the time I forget I'am even a member on there... HA!

Well, so far I haven't had an issue with the stock servo saver (yet). But if you haven't come across and threads or information saying "yes get rid of the servo saver and replace with...", then the stock one will do for now. Bench testing it seems fine, but racing is still remaining to be seen.


One topic that I don't think has been covered at all, ride height.

I measured the Recoil Pro chassis to be about 2.3mm thick. I believe my car is sitting at/around 3mm on the front (measured behind front tires through the chassis plate) and closer to 4mm on the rear.
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  #18  
Old 10-31-2008, 12:36 AM
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Yes, ride height would be a good topic to touch on. Between 3 and 5 mm is recommended. I'll get around to that later.

But, that was one hell of a first drive. Sad thing is, this is looking to get very expensive, very quickly.

I arrived home around 10 and my mom mentioned a package had arrived. It was that Mamba 25 I had purchase at the beginning of the week for $10 (BEC was blown) and I had completely forgotten about. Obviously, it wasn't going to see any use, other than being boxed up to send to Castle for replacement, so I decided to steal the Deans that were soldered on. Realizing that I wouldn't have to wait until tomorrow morning anymore, when my LHS opened, to have this car running, I got down to work. In my haste, I tripped over my Spektrum transmitter, snapping the antenna off. Oh, but it gets better. I decided to forgo tearing apart the diffs. to put better balls in, and I completely forgot to put a layer of blue painters tape on the bottom of the chassis to protect it from scratches. OCD or not (JK), I still wanted it to look good.

When I made it to the park, the lights over the tennis courts were just turned off. I didn't walk 300 feet for nothing! I figured the single light in the parking lot was enough to let me see the car...

No, I didn't crash it, but I really should've turned around and headed on back home. I promised myself earlier that I would wait until daylight to drive the car. I've had way too many close calls, and thought I would've learned by now. If I had waited until daylight, I would've seen that a wheel nut fell off a few minutes into my run. Eventually I noticed the car pulling to the left, and drove around a bit more, playing with the trims, trying to correct it. When I realized something really was wrong, I drove it back to me. I'm down one pretty little aluminum nut, and two others were threatening to fall off. But because I had kept driving the car, the wobbly wheel wore a hole right through the paint of my brand new body and the sidewall is shredded. There is tire dist everywhere, and the shocks are a dirty oily mess as I also didn't rebuild them with thicker oil before the first run.

Lesson learned.

But, wow. The AON is a monster of a motor. After just a few minutes of hard driving the motor was hardly warm and it got up to speed in less than two seconds. Here I was, wondering if I really did gear it too high. Nope, I definitely need to gear it higher. A 25 tooth pinion should be no problem for a large parking lot.
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  #19  
Old 10-31-2008, 08:27 AM
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OOooh man. No treats for you on halloween!

My car when I got it, it had tire debris everywhere. I ended up washing the painted blue stock RTR body that it came with out with soap and water and used a paint brush to remove the bits from the chassis. There is still bits that remain today after a few tear downs. The guy before me also used the pro kit non painted body at some points because there is debris on there also. Thankfully there is no damage.

If I took a pic of the inside (only front wheels area) there is pretty good wear and cracks on the stock body. So it has been deemed the hacker body anyways.

Good to hear a first report of the motor. I'am still considering going with your recommendation of the HXT 4400kv & 22T pinion as an option motor to swap out with. I do first want to see how the 8.1kv Tekin does.

The pitch of the pinion should be 48, correct?
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Old 10-31-2008, 10:57 AM
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Yet another great topic for you to bring up!

The Recoil spur is actually .5mod, which is very close to 48pitch (like the RC18 series). A 48pitch pinion gear will work, but will be a bit louder than a properly meshing .5mod pinion. Many people have been, and are, running 48pitch pinions for a while now with no problems.

The HXT 2435 4400kv should be a good motor for racing. A 22T pinion wold be a good match as well. Might even try a 20T , if you can find one in stock. Losi makes 20, 22, 23, 24, and 25T pinions for the Mini-LST, which is what the 22T I bought was made for. That motor is a perfect match for the range of pinions Losi offers for the mini-LST. After the races, you could even pop in a 3S LiPo and see what she'll do! Now, if I had the cash, and if this race was more than just for fun, there's no way you could stop me from purchasing a Mongoose system. For a car this nimble and small, I would appreciate the extra throttle control and smoothness a sensored system would get me. If you have Castle Link, play around with your Sidewinder ESC to make the car respond how you like it. The AON is borderline too much motor for the car, and with low traction, it simply pirouettes non stop.

Right now I'm cleaning the tire dust from everything, laying a layer of painters tape, and charging my LiPo. Then it's off to the Tennis courts, for real this time!
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  #21  
Old 10-31-2008, 02:16 PM
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If I keep this up, by the end of the weekend I'll have two clear bodies that need painting...

After taping the bottom of the chassis and giving the LiPo a quick charge, I tossed the Recoil and Spekky remote in a plastic bag and headed down to the park driving my 'Pede. There was noone playing on one of the courts, so I decided to let the Recoil stretch it's legs. Simply put, this is too much motor for the tires. At half throttle, it would spin out unless already moving in a straight line. It's noticeably faster than anything I've ever driven before, and I'll admit, just a bit past my limits. Combine driver error with tires that aren't up to par with the motor, with an unprogrammed Sidewinder that only has 50% brakes and disaster won't be too far behind. The tape did a great job protecting the bottom from scratches, but couldn't save the graphite from a collision with a tennis net pole. I managed to swerve and save the front end, but hit it sideways on the side bumper. It bounced right off with a nice "crunch," but the graphite tab that holds the side bumper on had snapped off. There was a nice section of paint missing, and now the steering was out of whack again.

I figured it was a good time to pack that car up and play with the 'Pede for a whole. Now, this is more my style. A bit slower, but can go anywhere an E-Maxx can, and with wheelies on demand! One wheelie ended up in a multiple foot slide in the roof, which tore my antenna off. Range was down to about 20 feet now, and the battery was starting to dump.

Back at home I clipped the remaining shards of graphite off then filed down the remainder of the tab. It looks pretty good, but I'll want a new chassis eventually.

Successful morning? Sure!
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  #22  
Old 11-01-2008, 08:03 PM
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WOW Kav, it sounds like you've had rough couple of days! From the sound of it, that AON motor would only get me in trouble. (old age and less reaction time )
Anyway, keep up the great info.
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  #23  
Old 11-03-2008, 01:49 PM
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Hey isnt there a webpage called "beatyourrecoil.com"? .... oh wait .. that is Kav's thread on here ... (just kidding)

Too bad there probably wont be much more then the foam tires to choose from. I have one brand new set and almost brand new set of those rubbers now.

One good thing about racing in that basement I will be running in, no open poles to worry too much about. They are well hidden behind chunks of foam. But walls also seem to eat up the cars sometimes.

Even though you might not need the chassis now, would it not be a decent idea to almost place the order in case it goes discontinued randomly one day?
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  #24  
Old 11-03-2008, 04:36 PM
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Ahaha, seriously! Naw, I'm not breaking parts, I'm lighting the chassis! Actually, the only "broken" part is the rear nerf bar tab on the right side, where the motor is. I clipped and filed the sharp edge off, but if I went at it a bit more, I could get it perfectly straight, and it'd look factory. Kinda how the Exotek chassis is, with no provisions for the side braces. The tires are nearly gone, which is surprising considering how "easy" I went on it. Usually I'm powersliding and mashing the throttle with my 'Pede. I guess the motor is really too much for concrete and tennis court. Foams really are a must for street driving.

As Nerve knows, a combination of a cheap LiPo charger and a dud LiPo means I no longer have a battery pack. When I pulled the pack off the balancing charger, one cell was at 4.38V and the other was at 2.2V. Not good. I contacted both companies, and I'm getting a replacement for the LiPo and either a refund or replacement for the charger. From now on I'm only using my Onyx 230 and a Blinky Balancer. In the meantime, I'll probably get one of the $16 Elite1500 packs from CBP. When I tried to customize a 7-cell upgraded pack, the price came to $29! I'll stick to a premade RC18T pack and save half. Can't beat a worry-free NiMh pack.

I was amazed at how well the car handled, though, in the little time I had a chance to test it. Extremely precise until I whacked the tennis net pole and the trim was off. Very easy to drive, and many times better than my 4-tec which had extremely vague and sloppy steering. I found myself drifting quite well when I had to correct for oversteering!

A ride height of 3mm is far too low for driving on anything but a swept and prepared surface. The front of the chassis where it meets the plastic bumper is ground down a bit. The tape protected everything else, but within seconds it was worn away at the nose. I'll need to to either raise the front or make some sort of shield. Or...I could just drive it inside on a gym floor for now.

But it was a successful weekend. Everyone who saw me drive it was blown away. Speed guestimates were around 45, some said 50. My guess was 40-42, but the acceleration was explosive. The Sidewinder performed very well driving a larger motor; no heatsink needed. The chassis can look like new again with a bit of work, the body doesn't look that bad and no sense fretting over a bit of chipped paint. I'll just need to give the car a quick tear down and clean, scrub the tires with Simple Green, and it'll be ready to drive again, this time, indoors.
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  #25  
Old 11-04-2008, 07:30 PM
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I just hate it when a product is discontinued. This evening, the suspension arms from a HPI nitro Rush were listed as discontinued. They're the best way to widen a Traxxas Stampede or Rustler, and I better stock up while they're still available on eBay. So the list now includes spur gears, hinge pin holders, "purple" foam tires, and Rush suspension arms. It's really hard and expensive to keep a discontinued vehicle running if it's your main basher. But due to the recent popularity (wintertime= indoor season!) wouldn't it make sense for Horizon to bring back the 'Coil under the Losi name or something? Wishful thinking here...

So my mom sent me an e-mail this morning. A box arrived today, and in it were 8 purple cans with black, red, and yellow wires. Of course that could only be one thing: the lot of 8 AON49000 motors! I had them sent home because I had intended to test them this weekend, but the package took 3 weeks to arrive.

I might have a lead on a few IB1400 packs, so my Recoil can be back running soon. I brought my Spekky remote back with me, and my intention is to drive it a bit once I get back from ISU at the end of this weekend. Of course, I'll need to clean the tires with Simple Green so they'll stick to a wood gym floor.

EDIT: Just thought I'd give a quick update on my LiPo situation. The company I purchased the balancing charger replied after I asked for a refund to use towards the purchase. Their response was "would you please tell me the item you wanted." I'm not sure what to make of that. There is a language barrier, but it seems they might send me a Blinky Balancer as a way of resolving the problem.

I then pulled the balancing leads out of the plug and connected them to one of my Li-Ion chargers. The charging algorithm is similar, so I figure if I can at least get the voltage up, the pack might be able to be saved. The 4.38V cell has dropped to 4.3V and the other cell is now at 3.8V. I am keeping a very close eye on this, as it is quite dangerous. The pack is sitting on a ceramic plate and my window is open ready to throw the pack out on the concrete below. I do not recommend trying this without some knowledge of LiPo batteries. Surprisingly, the pack is not puffed, which led me to attempt this somewhat dangerous resuscitation.
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  #26  
Old 11-05-2008, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kavvika View Post
So my mom sent me an e-mail this morning. A box arrived today, and in it were 8 purple cans with black, red, and yellow wires. Of course that could only be one thing: the lot of 8 AON49000 motors! I had them sent home because I had intended to test them this weekend, but the package took 3 weeks to arrive.
Is this the same lot that you were describing you had already had? Or is this another lot of motors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kavvika View Post
I might have a lead on a few IB1400 packs, so my Recoil can be back running soon. I brought my Spekky remote back with me, and my intention is to drive it a bit once I get back from ISU at the end of this weekend. Of course, I'll need to clean the tires with Simple Green so they'll stick to a wood gym floor.
Thats good you have a lead on some nimhs. I managed to get the other two packs semi complete (no shrink yet) last night and glued the other 18 loose cells into 3 x 6cell packs (no solder bars yet) as well.

I managed to get 2hrs of .50mah into one of the fresh completed packs (1000mah) and then it peaked. But that is also the first charge it has seen. So I imagine the cells should wake up with more charges. As of last night right off the charger it said 8.4v and this morning before work I checked it and it said 8.2v. So it seems like the cells are holding the charge. Initially the cells were all reading 0.0v.

As for my other "completed" pack, it was reading 4.5v last night after draining it for an hour with a simple micro rs4 motor plugged direct. This morning it was reading I think around 7v .. lol. Dunno whats up with that
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  #27  
Old 11-05-2008, 12:11 PM
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Same lot of motors that was supposed to arrive a while ago. I was wondering if/when they'd arrive, but over the weekend the seller sent me a PM apologizing for the delay and that they would arrive this week. Sure enough, they did. I'll be home again in about two weeks for Thanksgiving, so I'll test them then.

Glad to hear your Elite cells are working out. Unbelievably, it seems I have been able to revive my LiPo. I charged the "dead" cell to 4.1V then took the Recoil out for a spin to drop the voltage of the other cell. After about 10-12 minutes of hard driving, the voltages were 3.8 and 3.9. The ESC was ambient temperature (about 70 degrees) and the motor was barely warm to the touch (85?). I still can't get over this motor. I then charged the lower cell to 3.9V and plugged the pack into my Onyx 230 to peak it. No drama, no puffing. The pack seems to be perfectly fine and holding a nice voltage under load. Sure, I might've reduced the capacity by 10%, but at least I don't have to send the back under warranty. These cells are far tougher than I've given them credit for. Of course, after pulling the balancing leads out of the tap so many times, the metal tabs that hold them in place are now broken. They're wrapped in tape to prevent shorting.

So feel free to get the cheap LiPo's. They'll perform nearly as well as one 4x the cost. But please, PLEASE, do not skimp on your charging equipment. A quality charger and balancer are a MUST! I've learned my lesson.

I'll still be getting one or two 6-cell NiMh packs for 18T and R and for spares for the Recoil. You can never have enough packs. A 3S LiPo is in the very near future, as are a few more pinions with tooth counts of 23 and 25.
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
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I'll still be getting one or two 6-cell NiMh packs for 18T and R and for spares for the Recoil. You can never have enough packs.
I'am almost sick of looking at all the batteries I have. LOL.

My micro rs4, I used 2 different style of batteries, bullet and saddle I believe is what they call them. They were both six cells and both were 3 x 3 cells on each side of the chassis. One design was 3 cells pos to neg and the other design was 3 cells side by side.

My gf's micro used the stock micro rs4 design pack, so I had two packs of that designf or her car as well. I used them a few times with my crawler as well tho.

Now at least with the Recoil. The packs are ALL 6 cell side by sides..HA.

I was considering tearing apart the one 3x3 side by side pack and have it as another backup pack for the recoils. I would only have to solder on one bar to join the 2 sides together and rewrap it.


Hmm, I should snap a pic of all my batteries one day... just .. cuz.
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Old 11-06-2008, 06:49 PM
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I'm actually reconsidering my original plan of getting a NiMh pack for my 18's and as a spare for the Recoil. More on that later, but I'm getting a 3S for speed runs and keeping the 2S for more "sane" bashing speeds. Plus, I'm in love with their discharge characteristics and light weight. Why should I spend $20-$20 for a quality NiMh that can't even keep up with a middle-of-the-range LiPo, which is much lighter, smaller, and cheaper? The 30mm-wide 800mAh pack for my RC18T for a mere $7 is now back in stock.

Yesterday was awesome. As soon as I finished my homework I grabbed the just-charged LiPo and headed on out with the Recoil. Apparently our old gym, which I intended to drive at, is now closed for demolition. Couldn't drive in the apartment parking lot, as the concrete is too cracked, so where could I go? The basketball courts! As I was walking over there, I noticed a 1/10th zipping around the courts as well. A kid, in the same grade as I am, was driving a Rustler VXL. Of course, we ended up bashing for the next 30 minutes. We talked R/C's and such. I had no idea there were other hobby-class R/C's on campus! During one full-throttle run across the courts, my radio glitched again, and the car barreled off full speed towards the fence! Somehow, where it was heading the concrete sloped down and there was a two-foot wide gap, only a few inches tall, that the car managed to slip right through! No damage at all. Later on, the steering started acting up again, and the other guy's battery started to dump, so we called it quits. Here's what happens: it seemed like the steering had two centers. Normal, and then every so often, I'd have to re-trim it about 20 clicks the opposite way. Really annoying, as it would happen every minute or so. By the end of our bash, my tires were slicks. Basketball court concrete is grooved and really rips up the tires. Although, the car makes an extremely life-like screeching sound at the limits of adhesion.

After my next class I repeaked the pack, and took the car across the street to the Sav-A-Lot parking lot, as it was the only lit area. Did some drifting, speed runs, and laps around obstacles. The LiPo pack is awesome, I end up getting bored well before I fully drain it. The most I've put back into the pack is just over 1000mAh. I tore the front end down, cleaned every part, and reassembled the car. The steering issue was now fixed. By that time, the LiPo had fully charged again, and looking outside, my test track was empty.

Right outside the front door of my apartment is a 4-lane street, probably the busiest within a mile of the University. Around 1am, it's completely devoid of any traffic. The best part is, it was just repaved last week. So I have a perfectly flat and sticky surface to do speed runs on. My apartment is located on the outside of the curve, so standing on the curb, I can see well over 250 feet in either direction. I lose sight of the car long before I run out of space. This is the most fun I've had driving a R/C since I ran my Rustler for the first time. The Recoil just gobbles up pavement whizzing on past.

So yesterday, in anticipation of making this my speed project, I ordered a 24 tooth pinion to eke out a few more MPH from my 2S pack. I'll be purchasing a Rhino 3S 1750mAh pack from hobbycity either later tonight or tomorrow. I feel comfortable driving this car now, now that I have about 8 packs through it. Then, it's off to eBay to get a set of purple foams. The stock rubbers work great on a clean surface, but once they get coated with a layer of dust, grip drops to nothing and they'll just spin and wear away. So for now, I'm perfectly happy using the stock rubber tires for my speed runs on University street, but I'll need the foams if I want to bash on the basketball courts this Monday.

Now I have a few questions. The Sidewinder ESC has no problem turning a 24mm motor with 7.4V. But what about once I drop a 3S in the car? I know I'll have to go back down to the 22 tooth pinion, but will the Sidewinder handle that? Does anyone know how to calculate current to make sure it don't draw over 25 amps? I have a heatsink that I'll glue on to give me some buffer and keep temps down, but it might be wise to upgrade to a Mamba Micro Pro. Which brings me to my next question. When I finally decide 3S isn't enough, what micro ESC can handle 4S? Or by that time, am I better off going with an even larger-can motor and a Mamba Max ESC?

Here's something curious I've noticed: so far, I haven't broken a hinge pin holder or wheel hub, and there's no wear on the outdrives. For the amount of power I'm pushing through chassis, I'm a little surprised. I guess I can attribute the first two to only crashing once, though. Must be doing something right.
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Old 11-07-2008, 09:01 AM
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Now I have a few questions. The Sidewinder ESC has no problem turning a 24mm motor with 7.4V. But what about once I drop a 3S in the car? I know I'll have to go back down to the 22 tooth pinion, but will the Sidewinder handle that? Does anyone know how to calculate current to make sure it don't draw over 25 amps? I have a heatsink that I'll glue on to give me some buffer and keep temps down, but it might be wise to upgrade to a Mamba Micro Pro. Which brings me to my next question. When I finally decide 3S isn't enough, what micro ESC can handle 4S? Or by that time, am I better off going with an even larger-can motor and a Mamba Max ESC?
How to calculate current draw, consult .. google!
-----------------------------------------
Here's how the Cellpro manual summarizes the formula
(mAh x 60) / flight time = Average Amps drawn

As an example let's say you fly 5 minutes and put back 1500mAh:
(1500mAh / 5min) x (60min / hour) x (A / 1000mA) = 18 A




I have heard conflicting reports that the Mamba MP can handle say 40amps if the Sidewinder handles 35amp. But I have also seen inside a Mamba MP casing and it is the identical PC board and capacitor. The only thing different is the location of the capacitor as well as the black casing.

See below (found on google images btw):
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_74...tm.htm#7454584

Apparently the "upgrade/replacement" for the older M-25's were early run Sidewinders.

I would do some searching for an esc to handle 4S. That one I wont be advising on.
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