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View Full Version : Is this a forum or a commercial selling place ?


Roelof
08-08-2003, 02:56 PM
I am hanging here for a while and it was (and still is) a fine comunity.

With the starting of UnitedRC his shop the forums were looking as a commercial market place, he was realy pushing his products in several topics. I did mentioned some topics to the mods.

Others (Blind, Penquin etc) were not as fanatic as UnitedRC is but it seems Blind is changed and is pushing his products. United did start his "modified motor" and Blind is pushing his. Is there a (little) war going on ?
I know they are offering great value for less money but this commercial stuff is overtaking the forums.

Insn't it possible to create a subforum like the marketplace where those guys can push their products ?

Do not get me wrong that I have something agenst them, living on the other side of the ocean will hold me to be customer of them, I only want a nice and as much less commercial forum.

havy
08-08-2003, 04:47 PM
Having a new prod and developement portion might help this situation out.

But lets be honest, this is one of the best places to find out what's the newest trend for these micro's. and lately, there have been some new developements and these guys (specifically Blind and Unitedrc) are taking some risks in providing us with comercially ready mods that are NO WHERE else to be found.

I think the new prods that are being posted are very noteworthy and should be posted on this forum, as it IS THE BEST place to post the new and creative ideas that we like so much.

As far as where they post, I think a new prod section of sorts could be good, I garentee if it is made, it will be the most frequented and the most active of any of the sections in this forum. Just look at the ActionRC section. BUT NOT ALLOW THEM TO POST THE PRODS THEY ARE COMMING UP WITH?????

NO WAY, these things are just TOOOO GOOD not to keep secrete or to not share. NO WAY IN H%$# would I ban them if I were a mod. I would encourrage the inovativeness of their prods and their availability to the consumers.

I appreciate their feed back and honesty about their prods, PENGUIN, BLIND,UNITEDRC, and several others know that they have quality products that are worth sharing w/ us.

Nough said, new topic...

dvessel
08-08-2003, 05:22 PM
It's not that bad... yet! Wait until I start yapping about my new product. -jk ;) I don't have anything to sell..:rolleyes:

Let's just hope it stays pretty tame and we can self manage what gets posted. There are only a few selling products on these boards so it's not a big deal.

BLiND
08-09-2003, 02:22 AM
I apologize if I offended anyone by posting blatently advertising posts.

however, I have only posted 3, and they were for very new groundbreaking products not available elsewhere.

if another shop can get away with it, I feel I have every right to push my products as well.


I do feel that there should be a seperate forum for new products, mini-zracer.com has one and it as you all can probably geuss, is the most active.

Roelof
08-09-2003, 03:57 AM
I only want a healthy discussion about this. I find is disturbing to find in almost every topic a post with "mail me", "look at our website" etc. beside the "now in our shop" topics and I think you all know who I mean. Sorry Blind but when I saw your topics yesterday I thought a war has started and could be the end of finding the hobby on this forum.

As I did mentioned they are giving great value for less money and I do not mind if people are talking about it but now it is so overdone.

BLiND
08-09-2003, 11:11 AM
No worries Roelof, I completely agree, I think you'll notice I deleted those threads.

I caught your inferred remark in your last post, and I agree, I think we all know.



btw - the only "war" persay that I know of going on is a local one here in southern california between the 2 tuned 370 motor makers.

the main reason for the "war" thats going on locally is one was developed after taking the others motor apart ;)

subneuraldotcom
08-09-2003, 11:30 AM
Maybe this will work out: Create a separate forum on yourmicro.com that only paid advertisers can create new threads, but anyone can reply, and call this forum "Adervisters". This will provide the people who pay to advertise on this site a place to announce new products/specials.

the same stuff is being done for cell phones at www.howardforums.com (http://www.howardforums.com)

havy
08-09-2003, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by subneuraldotcom
Maybe this will work out: Create a separate forum on yourmicro.com that only paid advertisers can create new threads, but anyone can reply, and call this forum "Adervisters". This will provide the people who pay to advertise on this site a place to announce new products/specials.

the same stuff is being done for cell phones at www.howardforums.com (http://www.howardforums.com)

he he, that would be funny, good, and funny,....let all h#%* break loose in there.

I know the adds have gone up, but they are offering the very things we have been trying to mod into our cars. Personally I think its cool that you guys benefit from our experiments. (and might I add these are noteworthy prods that will advance the way the micros will be designed and raced in the future)

Lets face it, the 15mph micro is fun, but w/ these prods, you can get a 30mph micro w/o experienting and know you can rely on the stuff to do the trick.

just my opinion, Roelof, I appoligize for being a little harsh earlier, you have a point, but don't forget about the whole picture. You've been there and done that, like I have too, but I think its good that others don't have to go through what we did to get the cars the way they like them. Sure, your not going to be only one any more, but I like the comp on the track:D, I'm sure you do too ;) . But again, sorry, didn't me to be so harsh about it.

havy

xaznriceracerx
08-09-2003, 12:55 PM
well when i saw URC with the new motor and his post, i was like man, blidn and his chiaawa motor and URC's krystal 3 motor, hmmm they soudn pretty much the same but jsut different cmopanies, i thought threre was gonna be some competition for sure,

anyways, it would be nice to see those(blidn, uRC) work together :) maybe you guys can make a company together =] and split the shipipgn like this, if its in the east or middle URC ships it, if its in the west or canada BLIDN ships it... its a long shot but might work lol


just my 2 cents

Roelof
08-09-2003, 03:11 PM
I think we all agree that a commercial subforum would me a solution to clean out the rst.

@Blind, you did not have to do that but since you did I hope URC will take the example.

@havy, A lot of Serpent customers (I live only a few miles from the Serpent factory, so I know) are called fasion victims. Those people buy everything Serpent brings out, even if they are not sure if it will help. A lot of people are losing the feeling of the hobby because they can buy it all, even if they havn't got the money. Me and my friends are almost the last generation who are willing to think and build parts to get things better.
The Micro is a cheap car to get, to maintaine and to tune if people are willing to take the examples of others and those who are not willing can buy it.
But if the only example is buying it then the hobby and experimenting (like Dan does) is gone........

NMT_RACER_BOY
08-09-2003, 09:46 PM
And also,
to add to the idea of a new subsection,
can we have a new section for newbies that wants to post same thing over and over?

just a though... :)

dvessel
08-09-2003, 09:53 PM
Yeah, it's called a FAQ. ;) It's being worked on from a separate site. Will be good to point common questions.

NMT_RACER_BOY
08-10-2003, 08:47 AM
cool.
Maybe we can use the fish slap to link it...
I can't get it to come up In the messages tho...
http://forums.rcinfo.co.uk/images/avatars/444670a03df9140b4e5f8.gif

havy
08-10-2003, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by Roelof
I think we all agree that a commercial subforum would me a solution to clean out the rst.


@havy, A lot of Serpent customers (I live only a few miles from the Serpent factory, so I know) are called fasion victims. Those people buy everything Serpent brings out, even if they are not sure if it will help. A lot of people are losing the feeling of the hobby because they can buy it all, even if they havn't got the money. Me and my friends are almost the last generation who are willing to think and build parts to get things better.



*You've been at this for a while then..... he, he....... there is a new generation of hobby experimentors, and we are the ones experimenting on the micro. So your not alone, and your not the only one.....*



Originally posted by Roelof
The Micro is a cheap car to get, to maintaine and to tune if people are willing to take the examples of others and those who are not willing can buy it.


*That's what these guys are offering, and I have nothing against them offering refined mods that, I for one, have experimented w/ and liked, ( and I'm glad to see they are available w/o waisting the money[$$$$] and time I spent to find out if they work!)....*


Originally posted by Roelof
But if the only example is buying it then the hobby and experimenting (like Dan does) is gone........


Yeah, well tell Dan not to sell his 540(sorry Dan, its not fair to bring you into this too, but this is rediculous), heh.... The reason he sells it, is so OTHERS can benefit from the work he's done in designing a MICRO w/ a 540 motor that runs well and saves the rest of us the experimenting and money to build it.

I didn't want to get into this, but not everybody can machine a part that works better or as good as the origional like I have seen you and your friend do on other posts. So maybe most won't experiment, that's OK because if they have the stuff that has been tested already, they can rest assured that it is good. And since its on the forum, others can give their opinions too.

Besides, the most important part is to get the car dialed in to its sweet spot, what ever your goal is. This isn't HPI selling on this forum, it's guys like us who race micros, tried some stuff that works and is hard to get, and is offering it to everybody at a worthwhile price so they can run it too. So if you don't think that's cool, your one that doesn't want the hobby to grow or doesn't share secrets so you keep your advantage. I like to level the playing field but keep the perfomance up too. Share good news about reliable stuff that works and not say look what I can do and you can't w/ teasers posted so others can drool but only few can attain.

I think I had been pretty nice about the deal, even apologized for beeing a little harsh, but man, your a little extreme. Let others have a go at getting GOOD WORTHWHILE prods too. i think the forum is a great medium to raise the notch on micro performance, because ideas are shared and you can find out about the latest brake throughs and how to use them.

He he....BTW....i'm a consumer, and I like messing w/ my micro...I don't have a Chiwawa 300, or Krystal 3, but i'm glad to see that people are refining the 300 to suite our needs and not airplane needs. And most importantly, they come from our own group of micro guys that want us to benefit from what they are doing to theirs.

NO MORE FROM ME ABOUT THIS...:mad: .....What the masses do and consumers buy is none of our business, that you would not think these things as awsome news for all is sad:( .

Sorry, just my opinion, you have a right to yours.

Solution: make a new section so that this person won't complain any more.

havy

UNITED_RC
08-10-2003, 11:27 AM
Roelof,

I was going to give long response...but you know.....I dont have time to do it!

Relax.....from what i see....you are the only person that is complaining about it!

You and I have had some words a while ago...and per your request...URC toned down the PROACTIVE advertising...and we would let our service and products speak from themselves!

Now, URC WILL continue to post new threads about new products and lines that we will carry....just a "hey we now carry XXX". If this bothers you...then dont read it. If they create a specific area to do this..then we will post there....until then.....well..we only have one place to do it.

URC

Blind,

We are just abiding by the rules, that have been given to us by the mods.....am i off here?

Micro Moose
08-13-2003, 05:33 PM
I'll wade in on this this too.

I'm a good friend and co-worker of MicroChoady and an aquaintance of Intelligentsia.

Micro C. felt he got back stabbed a bit by Intell because He came up with the idea of selling tuned motors first and Intell bought one of his motors a couple of weeks before starting his own line of motors. While neither may have a legal right to this product you can understand why there might be some bad blood.

My own editorial comments-
While it may not be a violation of any rules to plug your own products on the forums, its unethical to promote you're own products in the actual forum pages. Let's keep the advertisements in the paid-for headers so we, the racing public, can keep reading this forum for free.

Intelligentsia
08-14-2003, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by Micro Moose
I'll wade in on this this too.

I'm a good friend and co-worker of MicroChoady and an aquaintance of Intelligentsia.

Micro C. felt he got back stabbed a bit by Intell because He came up with the idea of selling tuned motors first and Intell bought one of his motors a couple of weeks before starting his own line of motors. While neither may have a legal right to this product you can understand why there might be some bad blood.

My own editorial comments-
While it may not be a violation of any rules to plug your own products on the forums, its unethical to promote you're own products in the actual forum pages. Let's keep the advertisements in the paid-for headers so we, the racing public, can keep reading this forum for free.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

I stole nobody's idea as I have opened every single speed 300 motor that I have purchased. Most of the time the motors are not balanced properly, the timing is not right and so many other little imperfections. I previously told nobody what I was doing to my 300 motors because it was my little secret.

Rabid Chihuahua then released his motors. Which pretty much involved just about everything in which I was previously doing to my motors. I decided to purchase one in MARCH (It is now August by the way)!! because one of my motors had lost a bit of power and I wanted to check it out. I threw it in my car and ran it. I then went home opened all of the speed 300 motors that I had run for the day and cleaned them up. That was the extent of it.
You are painting the picture that I scoped out the competition and this was not even true.

The only reason I was interested in releasing these motors was due to the fact that the micro market I feel remains large enough to support the two.

Why does everyone attempt to turn this into some sort of rivalry when it is and was and never will be anything of the sort?

I don't have and never have had any issues with Blind, Henry, Glenn or Moose so lets not trip over something which is not even there.

There are many competing against one another. This will widen the market and ultimately boost sales for each of the competing companies. So why am I being knocked? I have done absolutely nothing wrong.
Oh, and If I start to re-wind motors then what, am I stealing the ideas of Reedy because I am releasing a motor with different winds?

UNITED_RC
08-14-2003, 01:14 PM
hehe......

That_Darn_Punk
08-15-2003, 08:33 AM
So where exactly do Mondo, HO502cid, and yourmicro stand on this hot topic of debate? Has anything been taken into consideration about starting a forum just for the venders and their products on the board?

Roelof
08-15-2003, 09:07 AM
Good question, so far I can see some agree, some do not mind and some disagree.

havy
08-15-2003, 09:37 AM
Roelof,

I guess what all the trouble of writing here is that the other side of the coin needed to be expressed.

Not to agree or disagree, but to realize that this is a good thing for the micro revolution;) .

It's going to happen, better it be our own than someone who thinks about money instead or how cool the cars will run w/ the stuff they got...

Another section for these posts is a good idea, but not elliminate them altogether.

havy

Roelof
08-15-2003, 09:51 AM
Havy, you are right but imagine if nothing is done about it and more commercial people will come think they all have the right to plug in every topic "mail me", "call me" etc. the hell can brake loose......

We say "to prevent is better then to cure".

Ofcourse I come here every day and my futere projects will be posted over here, as long I drive a Micro that will not change.

havy
08-15-2003, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by Roelof
Havy, you are right but imagine if nothing is done about it and more commercial people will come think they all have the right to plug in every topic "mail me", "call me" etc. the hell can brake loose......

We say "to prevent is better then to cure".

Ofcourse I come here every day and my futere projects will be posted over here, as long I drive a Micro that will not change.

Good point too, glad to see your not as extreem as I figuered you to be about this;) .

New Section could be good.

havy

UNITED_RC
08-15-2003, 10:02 AM
Roe,

I dont understand your issues.

first you say that you dont want anyone to plug products.....
Then you have a problem with people saying "email me" etc...when clearly there was an INTEREST buy the user. This is done to keep the "chatter" off the boards.

So..which is it? No plugs, or allow us to discuss details on products (pricing, avail) on the boards?


Just wondering!

Roelof
08-15-2003, 11:55 AM
URC, I think you will not listen at all or do you ?

My opinion is that you started this issue.
Yes, I know people like your input, products and your service but do you have to plug your products/shop in almost every topic where there is a potential customer ?

A quote of Blind in this topic:
if another shop can get away with it, I feel I have every right to push my products as well.

Can you realy imagine what will happen if there are more who will follow this kind of thinking ?

UNITED_RC
08-15-2003, 12:08 PM
Roe,

I am not going to turn this into a pissing match...but i listen very well...

Tell me where i have PROACTIVELY pushed my products on people as of lately? Again, we already have addressed this issue a while back.

And me starting this issue? I dont think so.....technically, I am not breaking any rules here...by plugging my prods....but since you are not a PAYING advertiser, like myself and Blind, you probably are not aware of the rules that we have.

I dont care what Blind does..he is his own boss. He can do what he wants! He is a good guy, I like him and his business.

Let me sum it up......Dont get me wrong, I would be in favor of a VENDOR section or NEW PRODUCTS Section......but until then...I need to use the channels that i can to introduce new products. I bet the majority of the people out here would like to know what optoins they have on thier micros..wouldn't you?

Maybe all of us Micro Vendors...should just be quiet about our products...and we all then can drive stock micros....WOW...what a load of fun!!

For the sake of non-productive communicaitons....I think the best thing for you and I to do is to agree to disagree! :)

microDrifter
08-15-2003, 01:19 PM
United RC, I think you should learn business etiquette. I totally agree with Roelof's point on this issue. If you want to promote your product, why not get your own forum just like microRCshop so you can post your announcement there. I think there is a reason why banner ads are placed on top or bottom of the pages and not within "every topic" so they don't annoy the readers too much. Look at the other adverstisers on this forum, they are not as pushy as you are. I think you are just a desperate businessman trying to make some sales. Sorry but that's what you look like right now.

UNITED_RC
08-15-2003, 01:23 PM
Well...ok...you have your opinion....and I repsect that.

But...what Roelof is referring to has been tailored back BIG TIME....at least from our standpoint.

subneuraldotcom
08-15-2003, 04:13 PM
Okay, I'm gonna wade back into this issue now.

I'm setting up my own shop. I've gone so far as to place a link to my shop in my sig. I'm making every effort not to push any products in the forum partially out of respect for people like United and Blind, but primarily because I AM NOT A PAID ADVERTISER.

Speaking of which, I emailed yourmicro.com to find out how to become a paid advertiser. Nothing concrete, not even sure I'm going to do it because there aren't a heck of a lot of Canadians in these forums.

That was a week ago. Still have not heard back. Not sure if it was lost, or if nobody is home.

Still, had it not been for these forums, I would be purchasing overpriced P.O.S. products from my LHS. I for one have no problem with any paid advertiser hawking any products in any forum on this site.

And I hope it continues UNTIL the admins of yourmicro.com decide to add an advertiser subforum.

I don't pay anything to read these forums. I know how much it costs for hosting and bandwidth though, because I 've worked in this business for many years. Its advertisers that pay the bills and keep sites like this subscription free.

Everyone has free choice. If you start reading something you don't like, just skip over it. You don't have to agree with it, just accept it.

I'll go shut up now.

dvessel
08-15-2003, 06:28 PM
There could be an easy solution all to this. If someone posts a question on something and United or anyone else want's to solicit a sale they could PM them instead of the "e-mail me" reply. -Which is pretty silly btw. You want something from someone then you make the first move! It does little service to the rest of the community also. Individual users could block PM's from specific members so it can act like spam blocking if you want to call it that..

If a seller has real genuine answers then they should post back on the forums but keep the selling off the general boards.

I noticed that microrcstore posts updates about their site in the market section. Does anyone have a problem with posting product announcements in there? We don't need a new section. We already have a place to post commercial activities. Well, until individuals start complaining about not being about to sell their personal collection.

hawk_196
08-15-2003, 07:38 PM
That's a great idea dvessel. One flaw though is that yourmicro.com has to pay for extra use of bandwidth for PM's (that's why they're disabled). There was a thread about that some time ago.

Well I've been thinking about this issue for awhile too. I've had some opinions and thought that I just couldn't quite put my finger on. If I sound a little off my rocker then let me know.
Well the way I see a company making business is by either: (a) Banner Ad's or (b) grown reputation and overall great feedback from customers who reccomend their 'special' products. Not by jumping to the thread entitled "wat bgatts 2 git" made by people obviously too lazy to read the forums and find out each companies pro's and con's. Even if people do reply to the thread. I would rather see fellow readers reccommend a variety of batteries, explaining their good and bad points, than a self made entrepenuer reccomending their products and plugging their site. If you really would like to reply to a thread like that (and you're your own business) then why not be unbiased and list all the battery types (or at least the ones people reccomend the most) explaining why each battery is good for what. If you would like to plug your site, then please, don't be obnoxious about it saying "Our batteries are for the micro owner with speed in mind! Our cells come with blah blah blah blah blah... You can reccomend your own packs, but don't just say to buy your packs and leave your email. If you really and truly think your packs are the best for their situation, then explain why your packs would be better than other options and on a side not maybe the price. Relax, if you treat them nicely and as a friend then they will come to you. But if you are pushy and blatenly are just posting to plug your site, people will get a bad image of you and would actually might ruin a potential customer. You don't have to do it this way, just a suggestion. Now URC, this is not directly aimed at you (after all, I'd order from you instead of BLiND, just cuz of how nice you are to me. (not that BLiND isn't just a friendly) Also the fact that you're about 50-100m away and not 3000) I understand you're new to the scene and need to get the word out man. I know how hard it is to start your own business. And please don't take offense to this post, I'm just expressing what I think.