New BL motors spotted

[Miha Holc]

The MiniAC motors are suitable for aeroplanes, 1/18th scale microcars, microhelicopters, small ducted fans etc.

MINI AC1215/12 (http://www.modelmotors.cz/index.php?id=en&nc=produkty_vypis&url_ps=mini_ac1215_12&id_odkazy=m_ac)

This one is even hotter, but only with gearbox available:

Extreme (http://www.modelmotors.cz/index.php?id=en&nc=produkty_vypis&url_ps=extreme&id_odkazy=m_ac)

[Miha Holc]

New motor from Czechs!

These look VERY promising!

Our hobby shop will begin selling them soon! Price? Only 65 USD! And they also carry now 70 USD BL 18 Amp controllers with very soft brake (non proportional). But who needs brake for insane runs ;)

http://www.mpjet.com/news/motor/brushless/20120/window.html
http://www.mpjet.com/news/motor/brushless/20110/window.html

7900 or 6100 rpm/v . PHEW!

As far as I understand Czech:

Segmented two pole rotor (!!!! like lehner!)
Neo magnets (ok that's nothing new, but hey at that price?!)
Special windings for less losses
one piece front design (not glued like hacker)
Integrated connectors (hmm, like MC2?)

Little bit tricky with mounting screws. Yes, with micro this could be a problem but with so much rpm only small pinions come in count.

Hey, this baby turns 6 times faster than stock motor, 80000 rom limit and has three times the power of already fast 400 :D Micro should go to warp 5 or to pieces ;) And at 65 bucks I think it is worth a try.

Our shop will only carry this model at the present:
http://www.mpjet.com/news/motor/brushless/20100/window.html

As it looks very promising in fast mini/micro boats!

[Miha Holc]

http://www.mpjet.com/logogridcerveny2yellmpjet.jpg

[duxrneet]

YAY!! You gotta ship us lamers in the USA a few motors if we pay, right?!!

[Pipeous]

Count me in for a set. That sounds like a good price. How many cels will the motor and esc handle?

[Miha Holc]

As on the motor page, hopefully you can read ;)

6 to 8 cells, but rotor is specd for 80000 rpm limit. And if you take 1 V/cell under load, well you can hook on 10 cells for short beyond speed bursts! LOL

ESC handles 6 to 12 cells!

This is exactly this ESC:

http://www.mgm-compro.cz/en/controllers_air_ac.htm

model TMM® 18e–3ph or ~10 USD more for TMM® 18e+3ph with stronger BEC

They are very praised among airplane modelers as they are very smooth, no probs at startup.

If someone reads German, here is the test:
http://www.strat.at/datei/Elektromodellbericht%20MGM.pdf

I hope I'll test in the spring in a boat however. But I will ask about 25 mm motors (those high rpm). They should be even cheaper, hmm, below 60 USD?

[Pipeous]

8 cels and a brushless is plenty fast for me. Hook me up bros.

[DSI]

they have been in hobby lobby a while back.
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/model_motors.htm
the new 1215/12 is not available, i lost track of a set up when HPI forums when down, HPI_2000 installed one and reported :eek:

What makes the difference between direct and gear drive, the specs of 1215 seem to be enough for direct drive?

[Miha Holc]

Mini AC from Model Motors are nice, but they don't have such good efficiency, doesn't have segmented motors and due to such nice looking carbon fiber can, they do not dissipate heat very well. They don't have that many rpm/V and this means more cells for the same performance as with MP Jet just with 6 cells - here you already have the performance everybody just dreams of. And Mini AC are almost 20 USD more expensive than MP Jet motors....

But I agree, if you are looking for all around, good, drivable motors Model Motors are better choice. Untill MP Jet comes with milder winds ...

What I think could be really nice, would be such mini BL motor with normal ferrite magnets. Like speed 300 performance, but much better efficiency and very affordable price (like 40 USD). And some very cheap BL ESC but with good car software, so the combo could cost about 100 USD.

[Miha Holc]

Small BL motors are like growing mushrooms after the rain... :)

http://www.razormotors.com/

Direct Speed 300 replacement :)

Discussion:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=76575&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

[emnm79]

those motors arent very good, but, for the price, they'll work...

i would definitely go with a lehner motor instead, much better quality than a whole lot of the rest... hacker, asstroflight... aveox.. etc etc.. plus, you have the ability to change the star/triangle wind pattern thing, and they have much higher rpm/volts, and probably better efficiency than the carbon fiber cans.. lehner 1010 13t gives nearly 10,000 rpm/volt with a maximum rpm of 100,000 rpm...

[Intelligentsia]

emnm which one do you have the 1010 or the 1015?

[emnm79]

1015 11t

[Miha Holc]

Our hobby shop just got the stuff.

And there is even one more new motor - Mega 16/7 series! This is 6 pole motor which means muchos torque. They had special 5 turns model which has about 3500 rpm/V.

Here is the pic of MP Jet 35-20 motor, MEGA 16/7/5 and nice small TMM brushless 18 Amp controller compared to 500 size closed can brush motor

http://modelarji.kelt.si/upload/mapa099/gopr1.jpg
http://modelarji.kelt.si/upload/mapa099/gopr2.jpg

[Miha Holc]

I think this MEGA motor ACn 16/7/5 should have power of 480 size motor but current draw of 400 size motor.

[Miha Holc]

This connectors from MP Jet also seem to be very interesting! They are gold plated, stick toghether VERY hard (which means low resistance and less prone for accidental ripoff).

From top to bottom: 1.8 mm, 2.5 mm and 3.5 mm

http://modelarji.kelt.si/upload/mapa099/gopr3.jpg

1.8 mm for stock/Speed 300 equiped micros
2.5 mm for BL power!
3.5 mm - overkill for micro.

Price: ~1.5 USD for female/male connector

[Miha Holc]

Whoa, here is another BL motor. This one is REALLY small! But unfortunately too much rpm (no torque) in direct drive.

http://www.mh-airpromotions.de/images/temp/Techn.%20Zeichn.%20jpg.JPG

http://www.mh-airpromotions.de/images/thumbnails/Viele%20YELLOW-MOTOREN.jpg

http://www.mh-airpromotions.de/images/temp/Anzeige%20Fertig%20jpg.JPG

[Miha Holc]

Check the video!

http://www.airmix.de/service/mh-yellow.mpg


http://www.yellow-bl.de/flightsystems.html

[BLiND]

how much is a full on controller and motor combo for the MP and that tiny controller?

[Miha Holc]

MP Jet 35-20 and MGM controller sell for 127 USD. I think 25-20 series motors should cost little less, but hobby shop has them only with gearboxes at the moment. Motor and gearbox cost together little more than 71 USD.

[emnm79]

i dunno about that.. its been my experience that brushless motors draw more amps than brushed motors.. in the midrange/low range rpms.. at higher rpms.. they are much more efficient... could be a result of the weight of an emaxx, or gearing..

18 amps sounds a lil low.. but lmk if it works.. that thing is tiny!!

[Miha Holc]

emnm79, how much current do you think AA or 2/3 A cells can deliver before droping to voltages below 1 V/cell when the controller cuts off? And with relatively thin and long wires voltage drop is even more significant. You can pull 18 Amps continously, I read on the test of this particular 18 Amp MGM one was pulling 20 Amps without and problems. I think 25 to 30 Amps on surge but at this current the cells voltage will get very low.

I have B20 13L in a boat and have the "old" future 25be controller and I empty 700 mAh (700AR 4/5 A) cells in 4 minutes. Controller is uncooled in a very small hull. It doesn't get much warm.

http://www.microhydros.com/miha_holc/miha.htm

[duxrneet]

Miha, nice boats there. I used your super tiny one for hardware inspiration, I'm making a monohull that's only 15 cm long. I think I'll try a 280 gearboxed for the motor. We'll see!

[Miha Holc]

http://newpower-modelisme.com/npm-final/htdocs/brushless_npm.htm

[Miha Holc]

Originally posted by Miha Holc
This connectors from MP Jet also seem to be very interesting! They are gold plated, stick toghether VERY hard (which means low resistance and less prone for accidental ripoff).

From top to bottom: 1.8 mm, 2.5 mm and 3.5 mm

http://modelarji.kelt.si/upload/mapa099/gopr3.jpg

1.8 mm for stock/Speed 300 equiped micros
2.5 mm for BL power!
3.5 mm - overkill for micro.

Price: ~1.5 USD for female/male connector



These connectors have very low internal resistance. 1.8 mm is more than enough for all micro projects. I has a tad more resistance than Trinity R- 4 mm "gold bananas" ! And is much much smaller and lighter! 2.5 mm has tad more resistance than Astroflight "Zero Loss" and 3.5 mm has little more resistance than Deans Ultra Plug.

[Intelligentsia]

Where can we purchase these connectors?

[Miha Holc]

Ask at Hobby Lobby. They sell MP Jet motors which have 2.5 mm connectors. Although I've not seen spare connectors at their web page they had to have something.

[J Smith]

That black motor the MP Jet, how big is it compared to a 300 size motor and how much faster?

Thanks. Just want to know.

[Miha Holc]

I gave MP jet web address somewhere up there... they have all the measures there.

I think due to almost twice as much Kv as Speed 300, the torque will be "only" slightly better, despite neodym magnets and gearing must be VERY conservative. 6 cells only - 2/3 A 500 AR or Hecell 1000 mAh (the purple ones). Just my predictions...

[Miha Holc]

Some small BL motors and controllers compared to the 400 and 280 type brush motors.

[Miha Holc]

I am doing some testing on these babies ;)

Not in a micro but static on airplane props. Interesting is Schulze ESC vs. TMM Compro ESC which is ~70 % cheaper. First testing shows that Schulze is few percent better (Amps at certain rpm at loaded motor) but Schulze goes on the full throttle above MGM. With Schulze motor spins faster under load!

See the pics...

[Miha Holc]

Here is the interesting Schulze vs. TMM comparison. Schulze controller I got is from the very first series which had timing modes. It has only 2 modes. timing 1 is "hot" and timing 2 is "mild". See the differences. Interesting is that I expected timing 1 to work better on multipole (6 pole) mega motor which is shown on this chart - Mega 16/15/3 on Cam prop 4.7 x 4.7 .
www.megamotorusa.com

[Miha Holc]

I made 2200 measurements this weeking and the outcome was to me in some ways very surprising. But this won't interest any of you guys, or am I wrong?

[Subw00er]

I find it interesting... How are you measuring RPM, tell us about your setup!

Also, I'm a bit confused. These cool motors, like this one:
http://www.modelmotors.cz/index.php?id=en&nc=produkty_vypis&url_ps=mini_ac1215_12&id_odkazy=m_ac

Can I use it with my normal LPR Quantum reverse ESC?

[emnm79]

no.... because these motors do not have a commutator to charge different segments at different times, the controller must do it (they have 3 wires, ,not 2) the controller switches the segments rapidly instead of a normal esc which just opens/closes the +/- and the commutator does the timing... this is why bl is good, no commutator.. much higher efficiency and lower resistance... plus you can have more power in the same size can.. no more laminations or whatever u call em on a brushed armature.. just windings around the outside, and magnets on the shaft...