My Open Class Micro

[armithius]

Here are some pics of my open class micro. This car works well as I recently won our local tracks season 2 open points series with it. Here are the specs on it:
-Ratzas pan chassis lowered 1.5mm
-Ratzas rear VCS deck
-HPI green front springs
-no rear shock
-Kit front tires
-Dynamite soft front tires on the rear
-Puma Enterprises GTP steering linkage (switching to a custom setup soon)
-Duratrax 3x6mm bearings on the belt guides
-Team Homies rear ball diff
-GPM pro front one-way
-GPM alloy driveshafts
-Team Orion high rpm ball bearing set
-Team Orion big block motor plate
-Graupner Speed 300 motor
-LRP Quantum Sport ESC
-Novak XXL FM Rx
-Futaba 3PJ FM radio
-Ikarus Micro Gyro
-Hitec HS-81MG servo (switching to a futaba S3002 soon)
-5 and 6 cell Sanyo KR600AE 600 mah nicad battery
-Rad Micro Sports Mercedes CLK GTR bod

Pic 1:

[armithius]

Pic 2:

[armithius]

Pic 3:

[TGRupert]

what's up with the wheels?

[armithius]

Pic 4:

[armithius]

Pic 5:

[armithius]

The last pic:

[TGRupert]

and now in this picture it has normal rims, what gives?

[armithius]

As far as the wheels go, here's the deal:
I have around 30 pair of tires and wheels. Many different brands and compounds. They are one 5 and 6 spoke wheels that are grey, white, black and chrome. So whatever wheel combo works on my track is what I go with. For me looks are 2nd to winning. That's why there are different colored wheels on the car.

[armithius]

The body pictures were taken after the body was painted, I didnt want to subject you to how the body looks now after a few nites of racing. The chassis pics were taken today. The body pics were experimental wheels in that I cut out the spokes and super glued the outer wheels to the inner wheels. Was tired of my tires getting shoved in. Found away around that though so I am back to the standard 2 piece setup.

[TGRupert]

on the first pictures it has NO spokes

[fuse01]

I need to ask this : what is a Ikarus Micro Gyro ????

is the middle box like thing? and what does it do?

please advise

[TGRupert]

it's a heicopter part. look here (http://www.hobby-lobby.com/gyros.htm) for more info.

[fuse01]

Ikarus Micro Gyro -- its a heli gyro!!!!
whats it doing in a micro car.


Now please enlighten me.. on this subject. this tiny thing looks cool. but cars do not have wings hehehehe..



hope you can share with me what it does?

[TGRupert]

I am definatly no expert, but until the doctor i will enlighten you with the following.

hobicco says this "An exceptional aid for improving guidance and stability... this gyro is ideal for use even in the smallest models. Combine that with the incredibly fast response time and precision of piezo technology, and it's easy to see how this very economical accessory can be used in a variety of applications...Both car and boat modelers will enjoy more precise steering and heading characteristics after having installed it "

[fuse01]

hmmmm are we toking about steering speed? throttle curve? and ABS? blar blar?


I thought all this can be adjusted on the TX?

especially on M8, 3pdf, R-1, Mars ex1?

[TGRupert]

the gyro can tell if the micro is tipping over and then it will ajust probably the steering

[fuse01]

sounds very very high tech. thanks for the explanation.


TGRupert are you using any gyros? in your micro?




i hope to hear more on it. as this is the first time i see anyone use gyros on micros...

Anyone else uses it?

[TGRupert]

not only am I not using a gyro in my car, but before this thread I had never heard about using gyros in a car.

[armithius]

Okay guys, I will enlighten you on the use of the gyro. First you can get one at http://www.hobby-lobby.com . It runs $65 and weighs 5 grams. Yes, it's the little black box sitting above my batteries. Now this particular gyro, as most, are designed for planes or heli's, however they can also be used in boats and cars. This gyro is a single axis gyro and is setup to sense sideways motion, or fishtailing/spinning. When the gyro senses a certain amount of sideways force, it automatically countersteers. The amount of countersteer is based on the amount of force that the gyro senses. Sounds like something a person could do, however the gyro can correctively steer 10 times faster than you can. What this means is that on a slick surface (linolium for example) I can punch the throttle and without ever steering the car, it will go straight, because the gyro will keep the car straight. This particular model will shut off if any driver steering is inputed. The sensitivity of this models is also adjustable. So I basically have a very stable, fast micro when using the gyro.

[TGRupert]

that's awsome, I actually posted that link earlier. it sounds awsome. you can get small gyros on ebay for about 30 bucks but most need a third channel to adjust gain.

[armithius]

This particular gyro does not need a 3rd channel at all. It features a zero adjustment and a sensitivity adjustment. Basically you set the gyro on the correct side to get the axis you want, then you unplug your steering servo and plug it into the gyro. Then you plug the gyro into your steering servo spot on the RX. Simple as that. Uses virtually no power.

[TGRupert]

yeah, but it is 35 more dollars

[armithius]

Originally posted by TGRupert
yeah, but it is 35 more dollars

You're right, however as I have said before, with R/C you generally get what you pay for. Ikarus (german company by the way) is a producer of some of the better gyro systems on the market. Take a look at a full on heli gyro set, runs in the neighborhood of $400.00.

[TGRupert]

I found one for 50 bucks but it is 7 grams (5 without the case)

[armithius]

Well now that I have opened the door on gyro's. Feel free to try one out for yourself. I know there are several out there and unfortunately I have not tried them all. This is gonna be a big trial and error type thing. All I can say for sure is that I like my Ikarus Micro Gyro. :D

[xxtcrgp]

Wicked, I want a gyro for x-mas:)

[TGRupert]

it's 2 months until christmas in july silly :)

[xxtcrgp]

Christmas is a long time away, oh well. Hey arthimus at a semi-local hobby shop there is a GWS(brand name) micro piezo gyro for $50. It looks pretty small in the catalog; well is this a good one or would it be better to go with the one you got?

[armithius]

Here's basically what you want:
Single Axis design? Is it as small as you want? Is it piezo? Can it be adjusted? And lastly, can you hook it up? Does it need 3 channels, if so do you have a 3 channel RX. Is it a simple hookup through your existing servo like mine? If you can reasonably answer all those questions, than I see no reason why it would not work.

[fuse01]

wow this thread is awesome!!!!


i got to get me one of this gyros.


armithius: i question please..


If i'm on a very smooth surface and on foams wheels , and i 'm sliding like a mad man unless i use rubbers, will this gyro work?

or if i'm doing a drifing turn around a sharp corner, will it also counter steer?

Can this gyro be use with my JR-R-1 tx.?


Sorry but this thread is really getting hot.

[armithius]

Yes, the gyro will work on the smooth surface and foam tires. What you will notice is a very, very small fishtail back and forth from the car, becuase the gyro has to constantly countersteer on such a surface. However the car will track straight on this surface. Now if you are in a drift, then you most likely are holding a small amount of countersteer yourself in order to maintain a drift. In that instance the gyro will not countersteer because you are manually steering. Now if you are in that same drift and let go of the steering wheel then the gyro will take over and try to straighten the car. However remember that the sensitivity is adjustable, so you determine at what point of a centrifigual force (sliding) the gyro will activate. Lastly the gyro will work with an RX, any brand and AM, FM, or PCM. The only catch is that the plugs into and out of the gyro are setup for Futaba J. As long as your servo's wires and the gyro's wires going into the RX match the same wire color as what the RX is meant for then it will work. This means you may have to pop out and rearrange the wires from your servo or gyro to match your RX.

[yourmicro]

armithius, this is the coolest micro trick I have ever seen. Do people do this at other scales? I've never seen anything like it. Wow.

[armithius]

Originally posted by yourmicro
armithius, this is the coolest micro trick I have ever seen. Do people do this at other scales? I've never seen anything like it. Wow.

Here's the thing, about 10 yrs ago or so there was a company that designed a gyro system specifically for R/C cars (10th scale). It ran around $400 and the idea died quickly. The idea mainly died because ROAR and NORRCA immediatly banned them in the rules, for good reason. The reason was that this piece of equiptment had an unfair advantage and was not cost effective for the average racer. Now the micro is not governed by any sanctioning body so its the local tracks rules. Our open class at our track is just that, open, anything goes. So one day I was in the local R/C plane shop and they were showing a customer this gyro. I inquired about it's uses for a car, and what do you know, the instruction manual has heli, plane, car and boat instructions. By showing this post, maybe I can bring light back on the gyro for car use, especially now that gyro's have drop significantly in price.

[TGRupert]

Who would be interested in a group buy?

[xxtcrgp]

I would. Depends what kind though

[yourmicro]

I think a group buy would be great, and would be happy to organize it.

[armithius]

Also keep in mind that the possibilities of gyro's extend beyond that of the micro. They can be effectively used in any R/C vehicle. I think they would be real fun and interesting in a 2wd offroad buggy or truck. If you race your cars though, check with your local track on the legality of them. But for the $65 that I paid it was well worth the return.

[jw_j]

if a gyro helps in a micro, would it be much help on a 1/10th scale electric or nitro off road truck?

[xxtcrgp]

I would say so scince they fishtail when you nail the throttle on dirt

[armithius]

Yes, the affects of the gyro would be the same whether you used it in a micro, or you stuck it in a 1/4 scale R/C car. If you have a vehicle and it likes to slide, and you WANT it to track straight, then a gyro would work for you.

[TGRupert]

just don't get a gyro and put you 6 cell battery pack made of A cells on the top deck. you will have a hard time steering.

[MortiKahn]

Schumacher Big 6 1/6th scale Lotus

Mounted a helicopter Gyro in line with the steering servo. Positioned the servo as far back on the chassis as possible. It works wonders. I can now launch the car by just grabbing a handful of throttle and going. No Steering input is required. Breaking works the same way, Grab The breaks, the car powerslide in a straight line. Any Input from the remote for steering will override the gyro. The gyro does not help the car in the corners, but it does help when coming out of a corner under acceleration. Before when coming out of a corner, you had to wait for the car to straighten out before applying throttle. Now its like the car has target lock. Whichever way the hood is pointed when you center the steering, thats the way the car goes, even under full acceleration. It goes that way with a vengence too...center the steering, and BAM the dang car is tracking in a straight line...even after fishtailing the rear end around a corner.

[TGRupert]

I just went to tower scratch and dent and picked up a gyro for 28 bucks. now you all can cry because you missed out.

[TGRupert]

I looked back and it looks like they still have a bunch left. so for only 28 bucks you can have a micro gyro.

http://www.towerhobbies.com/listings/listdent.html

[Whatup1049p]

What is it called? I only see the Heli Micro Piezo Gyro and that is $89.99!! Come on whats the name??

Whatup1049-

[Whatup1049p]

Armithius would the last gyro on THIS (http://www.ikarus-modellbau.de/Ikarus/USA/index-gyro.html) page work? It says its only 49.99 and it has the same kind of connection. Is it sammler too?

Thanks,
Whatup1049-:p

[Whatup1049p]

Hey TGRupert how do you like this gyro for small....

http://www.precisionmodelproducts.com/0a15aed0.jpg

[yourmicro]

MortiKahn, is that the Nitro or Electric 1/6? I have the Nitro, and it's so hard to control under acceleration, this sounds like a great cure!

[TGRupert]

Originally posted by Whatup1049p
What is it called? I only see the Heli Micro Piezo Gyro and that is $89.99!! Come on whats the name??
yeah i'm preatty sure it's that one. they STILL have it. http://www.bestrc.com/helimax/hmxm1010.html

Armithius would the last gyro on THIS page work? It says its only 49.99 and it has the same kind of connection. Is it sammler too?
I think that's the same one he owns.

[armithius]

There is the Ikarus mini and micro gyro's. I own the micro gyro. I am not sure if Ikarus lists the micro gyro on its english webpages, but I am sure it's on there german webpages. Just goto http://www.hobby-lobby.com and type in gyro in the search section. They have the micro gyro, $65. I raced with the gyro for the first time tonite. All I can say is AWESOME. It works great! I had some bad qualifiers and qualified 4th in the open class B main. I pulled it together for the main and won the B main, however my pace would have put me in 5th in the A main.

[MortiKahn]

yourmicro;

Aye tis the Nitro Big 6. VAST improvements in acceleration. Full throttle launches. Car moves sideways about a foot, but stays in a straight line. No more doughnuts on launch. Even brakes in a straight line....BEST improvement for the Big 6 Nitro out there...IMHO.

I got the gyro that Whatup1049p has pictured above, and some servo lead extensions. I mounted the gyro on the back side of the rear shock tower. DO NOT turn the sensitivity all the way up. Start with it about 25%. At full sensitivity, the car will reach about 3/4 speed and start to "hunt" for center. ie will wobble back and forth, wobbling causes more hunting, which cause more wobbling...at 60+ it gets real scary, and you can't slow the car down fast enough. Once you get it adjusted tho, it works GREAT.

[xxtcrgp]

look on here (http://www.precisionmodelproducts.com/id26.htm), see anything familiar?

[TGRupert]

that makes sence, the piccolo uses a 280 motor which is the same size as a 300. also it uses all the same micro connectors. the Astro Flight AF010 Brushless Motor looks a lot like a speed 300 motor.

[Z-Axis]

The gyro is amazing! Tim started to move the car from left to righ tand without doing anything the front wheels stayed exactly straight!! I definitely would get one, but no allowed in the Modified Stock Class.

:(

[Crooked H]

I won't go into too much detail about it, but after seeing this thing in action, I would recommend it to anyone who can use it at their track.

[wess]

weird...
i fly micro helis and i tried my gyro in the mrs4 just for fun.
the results were horrible even after playing around with the gain and the setup dial. when i tried to turn, the car would keep steering in that direction for another 2 seconds! then i tried reversing the gyro and it was even worse!

please let me know what i'm doing wrong... i'm using a gws pg-03 gyro which is among the most popular ones...

[Woody]

Hey Timmy, how did you have to set the rear mounts? Are they all they way down? I've got one now, (the Mercedes) but it looks a bit high in the rear.

[xxtcrgp]

who are you reffering to as "buddy"?

[HO502cid]

Originally posted by xxtcrgp
look on here (http://www.precisionmodelproducts.com/id26.htm), see anything familiar?

Why is the Elite Mod listed?

[TGRupert]

it's for a helicopter that uses a speed 280 or speed 300, the elite mod lasts MUCH longer.

[MicroJunke]

armithius

This may have been touched on previously, but I didn't see it covered... In your 6th pic clk6, what's the circular plate on the end of the Speed 300?

I just bought the Speed 300, and didn't see that plate....

Thanks... James

[armithius]

The plate is nothing more than a simple capacitor to reduce interference noise. It's a lot like what comes on the end of the Team Orion Big Block. It's just a fancy way to do the caps, rather than soldering on the 3 traditional ones. Anyways you can find them here:

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/motoraccy.htm

It's the Quick connecting cap for the 280/300. Item number POT101. Think they are $2 each.

[MicroJunke]

Thanks... I'll check it out... I should have asked before soldering the 3 caps...

Thanks again...

[TooFNFast4U]

a few questions for my first post. what is that blue thing on the from left corner of the chassis? and why do you have no top deck?

[armithius]

The blue thing is a counterfeit transponder. All it is there to do is simulate the size and weight of an AMB transponder. In my case, out track will be getting transponders soon, so I added it there to balance out the weight of the car. As far as the top deck goes, it's simply a matter of personal preference. Some people run them and some don't. I have done both and the performance difference is nill. For me it was just 1 more thing to add weight and get in the way.

[TooFNFast4U]

ok im stupid what is a transponder lol

[armithius]

Transponders are just a way of counting laps during a race. Basically the track has a computer with some race software. It's then hooked into a loop system that placed on the start/finish line. When you cross the loop, it senses your transponder number and registers a lap for you in the race software of the computer. It's a more accurate and easier way to count car laps, rather than having an actual person count the laps as the race goes.

[ssrberni]

thats way too much hardware on a car especially on a micro. And believe that device is banned for racing........

[armithius]

As far as too much hardware, that's your opinion. Anyways I stated earlier in this post that gyro's are banned under ROAR, NORRCA and IFMAR. However this does not apply to micro's. They are not goverened by anything except your local tracks rules. Truthfully they will probably never be recognized by the above sanctioning bodies. That is also why I put the disclaimer to check with your local track before purchasing one.

[scsi]

hey does that mean you dont have to set the steering trim anymore?? :confused:

[Mondo]

scsi,

Yes, you still have to set the steering trim.

[DntSwetDaTchnqu]

armithius
would you sell me your steering setup when you are done useing it. i really wanna move my servo to the side.

[Trikster]

Bummer, someone beat me to the gyro idea. :(

[Mondo]

Trikster

Armithius was the pioneer of using a Piezo Gyro on the Micro
I played second fiddle and have had one on mine for about 10 days

[wess]

i've been using my piezo gyro in my nitro car since january, when this thread started i finally tryed it out in the micro...:) neat idea, it works much better in the micro, thanks again armithius :D

[Trikster]

So can I be the pioneer for small boats? I had one (actually one that did 2 axis) in a V bottom speed boat.